http://grimfinger.net/forum/ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:41:56 -0700 MyBB http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=87 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:21:08 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=87
El mucho thanks to Blacksun the Canoeist for reporting the problem.

I also noticed, while looking into Blacksun's problem, that the front page of the site looks terrible, when viewed using the web browser Internet Explorer. I don't have time, right now, to fix that problem, but I will address it in time.

Curse the whole lot of you for not reporting it. Beatings will commence shortly.]]>
El mucho thanks to Blacksun the Canoeist for reporting the problem.

I also noticed, while looking into Blacksun's problem, that the front page of the site looks terrible, when viewed using the web browser Internet Explorer. I don't have time, right now, to fix that problem, but I will address it in time.

Curse the whole lot of you for not reporting it. Beatings will commence shortly.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=86 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:04:43 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=86
If there is a reason that I should not smite the whole lot of you, then I am not aware of it. And that is very unlikely, indeed.

You invade the Tome. You intrude into my realm. You seek to overrun it like cockroaches.

Like crows, you prattle endlessly, cawing tells of accomplishment and deed. Yet, there be not a single one amongst you given an eye to see with. Why have eyes in your skulls, if you only use them in the manner of slot machines?

Fools! I am beset by fools.

Bytor should be whipped, like the common dog that he is. It is not yet too late to strangle the life out of him, you know. Are there no volunteers for such a noble undertaking?

Pah.

If I were to delete your names from the Tome, to banish you into the Nethervoid, you would want to know why. If I were to cast you to the winds, you would think me unfair. Yet, you, yourselves, are your own worst enemies. If I want to destroy you, then all that I truly need to do is nothing. You are quite content, it seems, upon being the authors of your own demise.

For, you do nothing to preserve your own legacy.

You spend your lives climbing Mount Shame, and never seem to reach its peak. Or, perhaps you languish upon its pinnacle, ever fearful to come down. You cannot climb one mountain, until you come down from another, though.

How is it that you can find a Sasquatch, but cannot apparently put one foot in front of the other?

You should disband the NorthEastExcursions Hiking Club, for not a single one of you care so much as a single, solitary iota for it. Be merciful, and slay it in its sleep.

Your priorities are skewered. Your lives meaningless. A shadow is more tangible than any of you, more meaningful than all of you.

I am going to do you a favor. Not that any of you deserve it, of course. I am going to bestow a gift. You, of course, will cherish it.

I cannot be bothered now to explain what I mean. In time, a door will be opened, and I expect you to be man enough to step through it. You will do it, though. It is inevitable. The summoning will ultimately prove to be irresistible, even to the likes of ilk such as you.

To miss it will be a day of despair, a day to last you the remainder of your meaningless lives. How very fitting.]]>
If there is a reason that I should not smite the whole lot of you, then I am not aware of it. And that is very unlikely, indeed.

You invade the Tome. You intrude into my realm. You seek to overrun it like cockroaches.

Like crows, you prattle endlessly, cawing tells of accomplishment and deed. Yet, there be not a single one amongst you given an eye to see with. Why have eyes in your skulls, if you only use them in the manner of slot machines?

Fools! I am beset by fools.

Bytor should be whipped, like the common dog that he is. It is not yet too late to strangle the life out of him, you know. Are there no volunteers for such a noble undertaking?

Pah.

If I were to delete your names from the Tome, to banish you into the Nethervoid, you would want to know why. If I were to cast you to the winds, you would think me unfair. Yet, you, yourselves, are your own worst enemies. If I want to destroy you, then all that I truly need to do is nothing. You are quite content, it seems, upon being the authors of your own demise.

For, you do nothing to preserve your own legacy.

You spend your lives climbing Mount Shame, and never seem to reach its peak. Or, perhaps you languish upon its pinnacle, ever fearful to come down. You cannot climb one mountain, until you come down from another, though.

How is it that you can find a Sasquatch, but cannot apparently put one foot in front of the other?

You should disband the NorthEastExcursions Hiking Club, for not a single one of you care so much as a single, solitary iota for it. Be merciful, and slay it in its sleep.

Your priorities are skewered. Your lives meaningless. A shadow is more tangible than any of you, more meaningful than all of you.

I am going to do you a favor. Not that any of you deserve it, of course. I am going to bestow a gift. You, of course, will cherish it.

I cannot be bothered now to explain what I mean. In time, a door will be opened, and I expect you to be man enough to step through it. You will do it, though. It is inevitable. The summoning will ultimately prove to be irresistible, even to the likes of ilk such as you.

To miss it will be a day of despair, a day to last you the remainder of your meaningless lives. How very fitting.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=85 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:01:02 -0700 Sergio Pistachio El Sasquatcho http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=85
Tell me Dr. Science are you feeling kind of strange?
All your carefully collected data, all your tables rearranged
Tell me Dr. Science where did you hide your monstrous pride?
Did it crumble with your achievements and the wind gave it a ride?

Dr. Science is not a happy man
He really feels uptight
All his life devoted to his cause
And now he finds he wasn't right

Tell me Dr. Science what's this emptiness inside?
The meaning of life reduced to numbers
You add, subtract, multiply, and divide
Tell me Dr. Science whatever happened to your soul?
Your exclusion of other possibilities made you lose control

Dr. Science has got a dizzy feeling
Deep inside his brain
He bucked his odds and lost his bet
Against the tides of change

Tell me Dr. Science do you find it hard to breathe?
Your breast is being crushed by the weight of your conceit
Tell me Dr Science have you found your surcease?
Now you follow the path of the magician and the priest]]>
Tell me Dr. Science are you feeling kind of strange?
All your carefully collected data, all your tables rearranged
Tell me Dr. Science where did you hide your monstrous pride?
Did it crumble with your achievements and the wind gave it a ride?

Dr. Science is not a happy man
He really feels uptight
All his life devoted to his cause
And now he finds he wasn't right

Tell me Dr. Science what's this emptiness inside?
The meaning of life reduced to numbers
You add, subtract, multiply, and divide
Tell me Dr. Science whatever happened to your soul?
Your exclusion of other possibilities made you lose control

Dr. Science has got a dizzy feeling
Deep inside his brain
He bucked his odds and lost his bet
Against the tides of change

Tell me Dr. Science do you find it hard to breathe?
Your breast is being crushed by the weight of your conceit
Tell me Dr Science have you found your surcease?
Now you follow the path of the magician and the priest]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=84 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:14:04 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=84
I don't know. I just want to write something, but I haven't a clue what it should be. But, isn't that often the way that it is?

My wife is asleep, as is my son, my most wonderful, wonderful son. I just checked in on them a few minutes ago, and they are both lost deep in the Land of Slumber.

We went by and picked up one of my sisters, earlier today, and we were supposedly headed off down the road to eat. We were going to go to a flea market, but we were supposed to eat first. It was late evening before we finally made it to the moment of dining. You see, we also attended a birthday party, today. It was my great-niece's birthday. Her name is Mariah. We did not have a camera with us, though, except for our cell phones cameras, and those don't do very well for taking photographs to remember by.

I put on some music a few minutes ago, as I sit here allowing my mind to wander. Christmas music now rings out from the desk, from my computer's speakers. Alan Jackson is singing "Let it be Christmas." I don't know why. I just really like that song. I think that it's the beat that I like, more than the words. But, like it, I do, and so I will let it play over and over for a bit, until I tire of it and move on to something else.

I think about my Daddy, some. Occasionally. He was a better man than I, and I don't say that simply because he was my Daddy. Maybe I'm biased, but I try to be objective, but I don't really know how that one should go about comparing such things, anyway.

I paused long enough to flip through an old photo album, one that my Dad took with him after he and my Mom divorced. I think that it is very doubtful that my wife and I will ever divorce. Hell, we don't ever seem to get that mad at one another, for divorce to ever rear its head as a serious consideration of note. Several of my nephews and nieces seem to be having relationship problems, of late, with more than one gearing up for divorce. Apparently, for some mystical reason, I am soon to become their relative of choice to "look over" their divorce papers. I'm not sure why. After all, it wasn't my idea that they not be able to get along. It's not as though they often listen to my advice, anyway.

One of my nieces is running into some health issues, lately. She might have thyroid cancer. One of my sisters had it. This niece is 25 years old.

I had a nephew to get married, recently. I didn't know it. At least, I don't think that I knew it. Maybe I did, and don't remember. Hell, I don't know.

I created a new avatar for my forum user account here on the Tome, tonight. It's not a new photo, but just one that I like, and which I cropped. It's the one that I'm using, right now, with my son and I atop a large rock. I forget the name of it. It's below Caesar's Head. It's not a shadow photograph, but it reminds me of one, as we look so dark in it.

That's me, with my son at the right hand of his father. Beneath our feet lies an entire world. Sometimes, I wonder what my son's life will be like in the future, when I am no longer around.

I think that I may have cracked a bone in my arm. Or, maybe I didn't. It still hurts, and it's been a couple of months. Hell, it hurts worse these days, than when I first injured it. I did it, trying to use a shovel. Go figure.

I needed a snack, so I fixed myself a couple of ham sandwiches, washed down by sweet tea. I did that while scanning an old photograph of my Daddy, which I will attach to this message. My Daddy is the fellow on the left, and the guy on the right is my Mama's uncle, if memory serves me correctly. I don't know when that photo was taken, but the year on that car's license plate is 1955, so it was apparently taken before I ever existed. So, I don't recall my Daddy looking like that, when I was a child.]]>
I don't know. I just want to write something, but I haven't a clue what it should be. But, isn't that often the way that it is?

My wife is asleep, as is my son, my most wonderful, wonderful son. I just checked in on them a few minutes ago, and they are both lost deep in the Land of Slumber.

We went by and picked up one of my sisters, earlier today, and we were supposedly headed off down the road to eat. We were going to go to a flea market, but we were supposed to eat first. It was late evening before we finally made it to the moment of dining. You see, we also attended a birthday party, today. It was my great-niece's birthday. Her name is Mariah. We did not have a camera with us, though, except for our cell phones cameras, and those don't do very well for taking photographs to remember by.

I put on some music a few minutes ago, as I sit here allowing my mind to wander. Christmas music now rings out from the desk, from my computer's speakers. Alan Jackson is singing "Let it be Christmas." I don't know why. I just really like that song. I think that it's the beat that I like, more than the words. But, like it, I do, and so I will let it play over and over for a bit, until I tire of it and move on to something else.

I think about my Daddy, some. Occasionally. He was a better man than I, and I don't say that simply because he was my Daddy. Maybe I'm biased, but I try to be objective, but I don't really know how that one should go about comparing such things, anyway.

I paused long enough to flip through an old photo album, one that my Dad took with him after he and my Mom divorced. I think that it is very doubtful that my wife and I will ever divorce. Hell, we don't ever seem to get that mad at one another, for divorce to ever rear its head as a serious consideration of note. Several of my nephews and nieces seem to be having relationship problems, of late, with more than one gearing up for divorce. Apparently, for some mystical reason, I am soon to become their relative of choice to "look over" their divorce papers. I'm not sure why. After all, it wasn't my idea that they not be able to get along. It's not as though they often listen to my advice, anyway.

One of my nieces is running into some health issues, lately. She might have thyroid cancer. One of my sisters had it. This niece is 25 years old.

I had a nephew to get married, recently. I didn't know it. At least, I don't think that I knew it. Maybe I did, and don't remember. Hell, I don't know.

I created a new avatar for my forum user account here on the Tome, tonight. It's not a new photo, but just one that I like, and which I cropped. It's the one that I'm using, right now, with my son and I atop a large rock. I forget the name of it. It's below Caesar's Head. It's not a shadow photograph, but it reminds me of one, as we look so dark in it.

That's me, with my son at the right hand of his father. Beneath our feet lies an entire world. Sometimes, I wonder what my son's life will be like in the future, when I am no longer around.

I think that I may have cracked a bone in my arm. Or, maybe I didn't. It still hurts, and it's been a couple of months. Hell, it hurts worse these days, than when I first injured it. I did it, trying to use a shovel. Go figure.

I needed a snack, so I fixed myself a couple of ham sandwiches, washed down by sweet tea. I did that while scanning an old photograph of my Daddy, which I will attach to this message. My Daddy is the fellow on the left, and the guy on the right is my Mama's uncle, if memory serves me correctly. I don't know when that photo was taken, but the year on that car's license plate is 1955, so it was apparently taken before I ever existed. So, I don't recall my Daddy looking like that, when I was a child.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=83 Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:11:46 -0700 Sergio Pistachio El Sasquatcho http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=83 The Paper


Just got done reading the Paper today
It sure didn’t put a smile upon my face
Cause’ everyone seems so messed up & crazed
I tell ya, what a way to start the day
Wish I could roll over & make it all go away
Wish I could roll over & make it all go away

Look at page one
It must be true
Our lives are centered on only the bad news
What’s it all got to do with me?
Besides the old woman murdered down the end of my street
Hey look the athlete worth multi millions is now on our team
But they’ve only got him pitching once a week
Our teachers can’t afford to live and eat
Then sum-yung-guy shoots up a tech school with a G19

But you ask what’s it all got to do with me?
I tell ya, I tend to look at it so indifferently
Otherwise I think I might go insane
Trying to Deal with so much published pain
Otherwise I think I might go insane
Otherwise I think I might go insane

Look at the top of page two
Some person who really cares it’s true
But he’s in trouble for smoking pot in 62’
Capitalists putting little kids to work in sweatshops over there
Just to cut some corners on the sneakers that I wear
Kid’s are having kids & bringing handguns into schools
The Pop Star Diva shaved her head for husband number 2

Say what’s that all got to do with you?
You’ve got to look at it indifferently its true
Otherwise I think you would go insane
Dealing with way too much published pain

You can read it in the Paper
Get your Paper! Hey what’s that paper boy?
You want your $1.65?
Then why don’t you bring me a little good news for a change?]]> The Paper


Just got done reading the Paper today
It sure didn’t put a smile upon my face
Cause’ everyone seems so messed up & crazed
I tell ya, what a way to start the day
Wish I could roll over & make it all go away
Wish I could roll over & make it all go away

Look at page one
It must be true
Our lives are centered on only the bad news
What’s it all got to do with me?
Besides the old woman murdered down the end of my street
Hey look the athlete worth multi millions is now on our team
But they’ve only got him pitching once a week
Our teachers can’t afford to live and eat
Then sum-yung-guy shoots up a tech school with a G19

But you ask what’s it all got to do with me?
I tell ya, I tend to look at it so indifferently
Otherwise I think I might go insane
Trying to Deal with so much published pain
Otherwise I think I might go insane
Otherwise I think I might go insane

Look at the top of page two
Some person who really cares it’s true
But he’s in trouble for smoking pot in 62’
Capitalists putting little kids to work in sweatshops over there
Just to cut some corners on the sneakers that I wear
Kid’s are having kids & bringing handguns into schools
The Pop Star Diva shaved her head for husband number 2

Say what’s that all got to do with you?
You’ve got to look at it indifferently its true
Otherwise I think you would go insane
Dealing with way too much published pain

You can read it in the Paper
Get your Paper! Hey what’s that paper boy?
You want your $1.65?
Then why don’t you bring me a little good news for a change?]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=82 Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:01:22 -0700 Sergio Pistachio El Sasquatcho http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=82

Feeling, Thinking
About Life as it flies on by
I’m wondering and I’m hoping
To do something with my time
I’m screaming and I’m dreaming
That everything’s alright
Because living and loving
Can be so hard sometimes

Life on a Blue Marble
No one ever said it’d be thought through

I’ll make it, or I’ll break it
As I walk the line
I’ll give it, or I may take it
If I know that it’s mine
Because laughing and crying, is all part of the game
And living and dying
You know it’s just the same

Life on this Blue Marble
No one ever promised you part of

Tragedy fills our days
You know it’s always been this way
The love generation OD’d on pain
The rise of violence is insane
It’s been said by the almost dead
Things were never this way, never this way in our day
But the seeds were sewn so long ago
There’s no wealth in spirit, the only power is gold.


Life on a Blue Marble
No one ever promised you part of]]>

Feeling, Thinking
About Life as it flies on by
I’m wondering and I’m hoping
To do something with my time
I’m screaming and I’m dreaming
That everything’s alright
Because living and loving
Can be so hard sometimes

Life on a Blue Marble
No one ever said it’d be thought through

I’ll make it, or I’ll break it
As I walk the line
I’ll give it, or I may take it
If I know that it’s mine
Because laughing and crying, is all part of the game
And living and dying
You know it’s just the same

Life on this Blue Marble
No one ever promised you part of

Tragedy fills our days
You know it’s always been this way
The love generation OD’d on pain
The rise of violence is insane
It’s been said by the almost dead
Things were never this way, never this way in our day
But the seeds were sewn so long ago
There’s no wealth in spirit, the only power is gold.


Life on a Blue Marble
No one ever promised you part of]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=81 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:15:35 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=81
Unless future research reveals otherwise, I don't know what Robert E. Howard envisioned the named kingdoms of the Pre-Cataclysmic Age (which I refer to as the Thurian Age in my ramblings in this forum) to be like, or to be based upon. It may be that he never really got that far in his thinking, leaving the details of such to be worked out at a future date - a date which never came to be, due to his passing.

Robert E. Howard seemed to "borrow" from existing myths, legends, and history to populate his settings with, as well as create new material out of the whole cloth of imagination. It seems rather clear, I think, that it was quite desired on his part to weave the air of familiarity - which myth, legend, and history so easily and so readily lent - into his settings, notably his setting of the Hyborian Age. I have no real reason to believe that Robert E. Howard would have departed from this same approach, when it came time to expound upon the Pre-Cataclysmic Age of the same fictional world.

Obviously, Howard could have been influenced by later literary and other influential works, had he lived longer than he did and continued to write, but he had already conceived of the Pre-Cataclysmic Age prior to his death. While one could conceivably create any of a number of different details for Thule and other kingdoms that existed during the Pre-Cataclysmic Age, I will try to simply craft one of what are admittedly many possibilities, for the purpose of this project.

Before committing myself to stone, however, let us explore a few possibilities for Thule.

I will resort heavily to utilizing Wikipedia for source material, not because Wikipedia is the height of accuracy, but because it is something that is voluminous in nature, readily at hand, and a resource that is something that anyone reading this online can probably easily reference for themselves.

Primary source material, which should normally be considered canon - and therefore, controlling, would be words and passages from Robert E. Howard's own writings. I don't have handy access to all of his writings, so that may present a dilemma.

Secondary source material should be limited to material that was already in existence at the time of Robert E. Howard's death, I think - which would, of consequence, preclude the utilization of numerous recent and modern theories in a wide area of fields. Robert E. Howard died in 1936, so pretty much anything authored before then is fair game.]]>
Unless future research reveals otherwise, I don't know what Robert E. Howard envisioned the named kingdoms of the Pre-Cataclysmic Age (which I refer to as the Thurian Age in my ramblings in this forum) to be like, or to be based upon. It may be that he never really got that far in his thinking, leaving the details of such to be worked out at a future date - a date which never came to be, due to his passing.

Robert E. Howard seemed to "borrow" from existing myths, legends, and history to populate his settings with, as well as create new material out of the whole cloth of imagination. It seems rather clear, I think, that it was quite desired on his part to weave the air of familiarity - which myth, legend, and history so easily and so readily lent - into his settings, notably his setting of the Hyborian Age. I have no real reason to believe that Robert E. Howard would have departed from this same approach, when it came time to expound upon the Pre-Cataclysmic Age of the same fictional world.

Obviously, Howard could have been influenced by later literary and other influential works, had he lived longer than he did and continued to write, but he had already conceived of the Pre-Cataclysmic Age prior to his death. While one could conceivably create any of a number of different details for Thule and other kingdoms that existed during the Pre-Cataclysmic Age, I will try to simply craft one of what are admittedly many possibilities, for the purpose of this project.

Before committing myself to stone, however, let us explore a few possibilities for Thule.

I will resort heavily to utilizing Wikipedia for source material, not because Wikipedia is the height of accuracy, but because it is something that is voluminous in nature, readily at hand, and a resource that is something that anyone reading this online can probably easily reference for themselves.

Primary source material, which should normally be considered canon - and therefore, controlling, would be words and passages from Robert E. Howard's own writings. I don't have handy access to all of his writings, so that may present a dilemma.

Secondary source material should be limited to material that was already in existence at the time of Robert E. Howard's death, I think - which would, of consequence, preclude the utilization of numerous recent and modern theories in a wide area of fields. Robert E. Howard died in 1936, so pretty much anything authored before then is fair game.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=80 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:05:48 -0700 Bytor of the Snowdogs http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=80
Benevolent , and uncaring the god sat in his chambers..., waiting. For what...? No one could know. Great was his power , and mighty his enchantments, his halls left open to all who sought to call his name.Without fear, he sat content in his omnipotence.

Bytor , as always , unaware of his trespass, strode foolishly about, as a Jester at court. Knowing not, that judgement had already befallen him,and paying no heed to it's punishments, he found himself alone, and unprotected. Walking through the sands of the Fool King's Shoutbox, and standing amidst these sands, found himself face to face with the God himself come to flesh as a finger of Grimness,pointing down at Bytor from on high.

The God spoke unto the wanderer, challenging his right to flaunt such arrogance. Questioning tones that Bytor mistook for invitation. Bytor indulged..., with a questioning mock of his own. Daring defiance, a challenge to the Grim Fingered Fool King's right to sit in judgement upon him.

In answer to this challenge the finger was aimed "A fool by your actions ..., a fool shall you be" bellowed the god. A crackling hiss sounded from nowhere. Lights blinded Bytor, freezing him. He felt a cold chill settle throughout his being. He was changed somehow, he knew. Yet still..., he could see no harm come to him. Again he mocked..., and again came reply.

Another hiss, and a crack, a mock, and a shudder. It was then Bytor realized , he had stepped too far. It was then that he realized he must fight for survival.

He stepped up his verbal assault ..., rebuffed again, and again. Steeling himself with each altering blast of the god's mighty powers. The battle raged, and Bytor faltered. His reserves too short, and the Fool King's power undeniable. He relented .

After a struggle for sanity, soul,and survival, Bytor stood humbled. Tired and weary, stretched too thin he knelt. Professing his foolishness, he bowed, and prayed mercy of the God.

Mercy was granted..., and Bytor set free of the sand..., the grains of which, set in his eye, he still could not see !

So how it was , that Bytor became "The Jester ", clown for amusement of the Grim, fool worshiped, God, whenever the mood should strike him. A role he could live with , and perhaps one day gain favor. Favor perhaps to be deemed worthy of restoration of his previous place, amongst the Nobility of the kingdom, ruled by the Grim Finger of the Fool King.]]>
Benevolent , and uncaring the god sat in his chambers..., waiting. For what...? No one could know. Great was his power , and mighty his enchantments, his halls left open to all who sought to call his name.Without fear, he sat content in his omnipotence.

Bytor , as always , unaware of his trespass, strode foolishly about, as a Jester at court. Knowing not, that judgement had already befallen him,and paying no heed to it's punishments, he found himself alone, and unprotected. Walking through the sands of the Fool King's Shoutbox, and standing amidst these sands, found himself face to face with the God himself come to flesh as a finger of Grimness,pointing down at Bytor from on high.

The God spoke unto the wanderer, challenging his right to flaunt such arrogance. Questioning tones that Bytor mistook for invitation. Bytor indulged..., with a questioning mock of his own. Daring defiance, a challenge to the Grim Fingered Fool King's right to sit in judgement upon him.

In answer to this challenge the finger was aimed "A fool by your actions ..., a fool shall you be" bellowed the god. A crackling hiss sounded from nowhere. Lights blinded Bytor, freezing him. He felt a cold chill settle throughout his being. He was changed somehow, he knew. Yet still..., he could see no harm come to him. Again he mocked..., and again came reply.

Another hiss, and a crack, a mock, and a shudder. It was then Bytor realized , he had stepped too far. It was then that he realized he must fight for survival.

He stepped up his verbal assault ..., rebuffed again, and again. Steeling himself with each altering blast of the god's mighty powers. The battle raged, and Bytor faltered. His reserves too short, and the Fool King's power undeniable. He relented .

After a struggle for sanity, soul,and survival, Bytor stood humbled. Tired and weary, stretched too thin he knelt. Professing his foolishness, he bowed, and prayed mercy of the God.

Mercy was granted..., and Bytor set free of the sand..., the grains of which, set in his eye, he still could not see !

So how it was , that Bytor became "The Jester ", clown for amusement of the Grim, fool worshiped, God, whenever the mood should strike him. A role he could live with , and perhaps one day gain favor. Favor perhaps to be deemed worthy of restoration of his previous place, amongst the Nobility of the kingdom, ruled by the Grim Finger of the Fool King.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=79 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:12:20 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=79
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hyborian_Age

The Thurian Age

1. Of that epoch known by the Nemedian chroniclers as the Pre-Cataclysmic Age, little is known except the latter part, and that is veiled in the mists of legendry.

2. Known history begins with the waning of the Pre-Cataclysmic civilization, dominated by the kingdoms of Kamelia, Valusia, Verulia, Grondar, Thule and Commoria. These peoples spoke a similar language, arguing a common origin. There were other kingdoms, equally civilized, but inhabited by different, and apparently older races.

3. The barbarians of that age were the Picts, who lived on islands far out on the western ocean; the Atlanteans, who dwelt on a small continent between the Pictish Islands and the main, or Thurian Continent; and the Lemurians, who inhabited a chain of large islands in the eastern hemisphere.

4. There were vast regions of unexplored land.

5. The civilized kingdoms, though enormous in extent, occupied a comparatively small portion of the whole planet. Valusia was the western-most kingdom of the Thurian Continent; Grondar the eastern-most. East of Grondar, whose people were less highly cultured than those of their kindred kingdoms, stretched a wild and barren expanse of deserts. Among the less arid stretches of desert, in the jungles, and among the mountains, lived scattered clans and tribes of primitive savages. Far to the south there was a mysterious civilization, unconnected with the Thurian culture, and apparently pre-human in its nature. On the far-eastern shores of the Continent there lived another race, human, but mysterious and non-Thurian, with which the Lemurians from time to time came in contact. They apparently came from a shadowy and nameless continent lying somewhere east of the Lemurian Islands.

6. The Thurian civilization was crumbling; their armies were composed largely of barbarian mercenaries. Picts, Atlanteans and Lemurians were their generals, their statesmen, often their kings. Of the bickerings of the kingdoms, and the wars between Valusia and Commoria, as well as the conquests by which the Atlanteans founded a kingdom on the mainland, there were more legends than accurate history.

7. Then the Cataclysm rocked the world. Atlantis and Lemuria sank, and the Pictish Islands were heaved up to form the mountain peaks of a new continent. Sections of the Thurian Continent vanished under the waves, or sinking, formed great inland lakes and seas. Volcanoes broke forth and terrific earthquakes shook down the shining cities of the empires. Whole nations were blotted out.

8. The barbarians fared a little better than the civilized races. The inhabitants of the Pictish Islands were destroyed, but a great colony of them, settled among the mountains of Valusia's southern frontier, to serve as a buffer against foreign invasion, was untouched. The Continental kingdom of the Atlanteans likewise escaped the common ruin, and to it came thousands of their tribesmen in ships from the sinking land. Many Lemurians escaped to the eastern coast of the Thurian Continent, which was comparatively untouched. There they were enslaved by the ancient race which already dwelt there, and their history, for thousands of years, is a history of brutal servitude.

9. In the western part of the Continent, changing conditions created strange forms of plant and animal life. Thick jungles covered the plains, great rivers cut their roads to the sea, wild mountains were heaved up, and lakes covered the ruins of old cities in fertile valleys.

10. To the Continental kingdom of the Atlanteans, from sunken areas, swarmed myriads of beasts and savages — ape-men and apes. Forced to battle continually for their lives, they yet managed to retain vestiges of their former state of highly advanced barbarism. Robbed of metals and ores, they became workers in stone like their distant ancestors, and had attained a real artistic level, when their struggling culture came into contact with the powerful Pictish nation. The Picts had also reverted to flint, but had advanced more rapidly in the matter of population and war-science. They had none of the Atlanteans' artistic nature; they were a ruder, more practical, more prolific race. They left no pictures painted or carved on ivory, as did their enemies, but they left remarkably efficient flint weapons in plenty.

These stone-age kingdoms clashed, and in a series of bloody wars, the outnumbered Atlanteans were hurled back into a state of savagery, and the evolution of the Picts was halted. Five hundred years after the Cataclysm the barbaric kingdoms have vanished. It is now a nation of savages — the Picts — carrying on continual warfare with tribes of savages — the Atlanteans. The Picts had the advantage of numbers and unity, whereas the Atlanteans had fallen into loosely knit clans. That was the west of that day.

In the distant east, cut off from the rest of the world by the heaving up of gigantic mountains and the forming of a chain of vast lakes, the Lemurians are toiling as slaves of their ancient masters. The far south is still veiled in mystery. Untouched by the Cataclysm, its destiny is still pre-human. Of the civilized races of the Thurian Continent, a remnant of one of the non-Valusian nations dwells among the low mountains of the southeast — the Zhemri. Here and there about the world are scattered clans of apish savages, entirely ignorant of the rise and fall of the great civilizations. But in the far north another people are slowly coming into existence.

At the time of the Cataclysm, a band of savages, whose development was not much above that of the Neanderthal, fled to the north to escape destruction. They found the snow-countries inhabited only by a species of ferocious snow-apes — huge shaggy white animals, apparently native to that climate. These they fought and drove beyond the Arctic circle, to perish, as the savages thought. The latter, then, adapted themselves to their hardy new environment and throve.

After the Pictish-Atlantean wars had destroyed the beginnings of what might have been a new culture, another, lesser cataclysm further altered the appearance of the original continent, left a great inland sea where the chain of lakes had been, to further separate west from east, and the attendant earthquakes, floods and volcanoes completed the ruin of the barbarians which their tribal wars had begun.]]>
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hyborian_Age

The Thurian Age

1. Of that epoch known by the Nemedian chroniclers as the Pre-Cataclysmic Age, little is known except the latter part, and that is veiled in the mists of legendry.

2. Known history begins with the waning of the Pre-Cataclysmic civilization, dominated by the kingdoms of Kamelia, Valusia, Verulia, Grondar, Thule and Commoria. These peoples spoke a similar language, arguing a common origin. There were other kingdoms, equally civilized, but inhabited by different, and apparently older races.

3. The barbarians of that age were the Picts, who lived on islands far out on the western ocean; the Atlanteans, who dwelt on a small continent between the Pictish Islands and the main, or Thurian Continent; and the Lemurians, who inhabited a chain of large islands in the eastern hemisphere.

4. There were vast regions of unexplored land.

5. The civilized kingdoms, though enormous in extent, occupied a comparatively small portion of the whole planet. Valusia was the western-most kingdom of the Thurian Continent; Grondar the eastern-most. East of Grondar, whose people were less highly cultured than those of their kindred kingdoms, stretched a wild and barren expanse of deserts. Among the less arid stretches of desert, in the jungles, and among the mountains, lived scattered clans and tribes of primitive savages. Far to the south there was a mysterious civilization, unconnected with the Thurian culture, and apparently pre-human in its nature. On the far-eastern shores of the Continent there lived another race, human, but mysterious and non-Thurian, with which the Lemurians from time to time came in contact. They apparently came from a shadowy and nameless continent lying somewhere east of the Lemurian Islands.

6. The Thurian civilization was crumbling; their armies were composed largely of barbarian mercenaries. Picts, Atlanteans and Lemurians were their generals, their statesmen, often their kings. Of the bickerings of the kingdoms, and the wars between Valusia and Commoria, as well as the conquests by which the Atlanteans founded a kingdom on the mainland, there were more legends than accurate history.

7. Then the Cataclysm rocked the world. Atlantis and Lemuria sank, and the Pictish Islands were heaved up to form the mountain peaks of a new continent. Sections of the Thurian Continent vanished under the waves, or sinking, formed great inland lakes and seas. Volcanoes broke forth and terrific earthquakes shook down the shining cities of the empires. Whole nations were blotted out.

8. The barbarians fared a little better than the civilized races. The inhabitants of the Pictish Islands were destroyed, but a great colony of them, settled among the mountains of Valusia's southern frontier, to serve as a buffer against foreign invasion, was untouched. The Continental kingdom of the Atlanteans likewise escaped the common ruin, and to it came thousands of their tribesmen in ships from the sinking land. Many Lemurians escaped to the eastern coast of the Thurian Continent, which was comparatively untouched. There they were enslaved by the ancient race which already dwelt there, and their history, for thousands of years, is a history of brutal servitude.

9. In the western part of the Continent, changing conditions created strange forms of plant and animal life. Thick jungles covered the plains, great rivers cut their roads to the sea, wild mountains were heaved up, and lakes covered the ruins of old cities in fertile valleys.

10. To the Continental kingdom of the Atlanteans, from sunken areas, swarmed myriads of beasts and savages — ape-men and apes. Forced to battle continually for their lives, they yet managed to retain vestiges of their former state of highly advanced barbarism. Robbed of metals and ores, they became workers in stone like their distant ancestors, and had attained a real artistic level, when their struggling culture came into contact with the powerful Pictish nation. The Picts had also reverted to flint, but had advanced more rapidly in the matter of population and war-science. They had none of the Atlanteans' artistic nature; they were a ruder, more practical, more prolific race. They left no pictures painted or carved on ivory, as did their enemies, but they left remarkably efficient flint weapons in plenty.

These stone-age kingdoms clashed, and in a series of bloody wars, the outnumbered Atlanteans were hurled back into a state of savagery, and the evolution of the Picts was halted. Five hundred years after the Cataclysm the barbaric kingdoms have vanished. It is now a nation of savages — the Picts — carrying on continual warfare with tribes of savages — the Atlanteans. The Picts had the advantage of numbers and unity, whereas the Atlanteans had fallen into loosely knit clans. That was the west of that day.

In the distant east, cut off from the rest of the world by the heaving up of gigantic mountains and the forming of a chain of vast lakes, the Lemurians are toiling as slaves of their ancient masters. The far south is still veiled in mystery. Untouched by the Cataclysm, its destiny is still pre-human. Of the civilized races of the Thurian Continent, a remnant of one of the non-Valusian nations dwells among the low mountains of the southeast — the Zhemri. Here and there about the world are scattered clans of apish savages, entirely ignorant of the rise and fall of the great civilizations. But in the far north another people are slowly coming into existence.

At the time of the Cataclysm, a band of savages, whose development was not much above that of the Neanderthal, fled to the north to escape destruction. They found the snow-countries inhabited only by a species of ferocious snow-apes — huge shaggy white animals, apparently native to that climate. These they fought and drove beyond the Arctic circle, to perish, as the savages thought. The latter, then, adapted themselves to their hardy new environment and throve.

After the Pictish-Atlantean wars had destroyed the beginnings of what might have been a new culture, another, lesser cataclysm further altered the appearance of the original continent, left a great inland sea where the chain of lakes had been, to further separate west from east, and the attendant earthquakes, floods and volcanoes completed the ruin of the barbarians which their tribal wars had begun.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=78 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:25:50 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=78
KAMB-11
KAMB-12
RAJA-9
KOSA-12
OPHI-11
SHEM-10
TURA-15
UTTA-13
ZAMO-CHA
ZAMO-4]]>
KAMB-11
KAMB-12
RAJA-9
KOSA-12
OPHI-11
SHEM-10
TURA-15
UTTA-13
ZAMO-CHA
ZAMO-4]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=77 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:25:35 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=77
AQUI-10
ARGO-9
ASGA-7
BRYT-CHA
BRYT-6
BRYT-7
CIMM-CHA
CORI-4
DARF-CHA
HYPE-6
HYPE-8
IRAN-5
JUMA-6
KAMB-7
KAMB-11
KESH-10
KESH-14
KHAU-10
RAJA-7
RAJA-9
RAJA-10
KOSA-7
KOSA-9
OPHI-9
PICT-8
STYG-10
STYG-17
TURA-13
UTTA-8
UTTA-15
VEND-11
ZAMO-CHA
ZEMB-10
ZING-5]]>
AQUI-10
ARGO-9
ASGA-7
BRYT-CHA
BRYT-6
BRYT-7
CIMM-CHA
CORI-4
DARF-CHA
HYPE-6
HYPE-8
IRAN-5
JUMA-6
KAMB-7
KAMB-11
KESH-10
KESH-14
KHAU-10
RAJA-7
RAJA-9
RAJA-10
KOSA-7
KOSA-9
OPHI-9
PICT-8
STYG-10
STYG-17
TURA-13
UTTA-8
UTTA-15
VEND-11
ZAMO-CHA
ZEMB-10
ZING-5]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=76 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:07:37 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=76
http://grimfinger.net/MegaAlliances.html

http://grimfinger.net/MoreMegaAlliances.html


From the Introduction section of the rulebook for Hyborian War, we find:

Hyborian War is a game of imperial conquest in the age of Conan. You will wield the power of command over the destiny of the kingdom you have chosen, charting a course of battle, intrigue and diplomacy over the centuries of the Age. Virtually every tool of statecraft is at your disposal. These rules will give you an idea of the many options available. How you use them--even how many of them you use--is up to you.

http://reality.com/hwintrod.htm


In the Settings section of the rulebook for Hyborian War, it states:

Each Hyborian War game represents in essence an "alternate history" of the Hyborian Age. In each game the history of the world will be different--the events which make up history will be decided by the actions of the players.

This same section also states:

The role of the player in the game is that of an "immortal power behind the scenes." The player is a personality which alternately inhabits various members of a ruling dynasty--those who wield the true power of Hyboria over the passage of centuries. Monarchs may live and die. Thou, however, art ageless and eternal, a spirit of war, determined to mix thy passions with those of the age until the cup of glory hath been drunk to the lees. In summary, Hyborian War allows you a wide range of specific commands and declarations. RSI's staff and computer systems act as your ministers and accountants, keeping track of facts and figures for you, allowing you to execute complex missions with simple commands. (You will wage war without being responsible for counting arrows.) Use the best of your common sense and intuition, learn from your experiences, and guard your back always!

http://reality.com/hwsettin.htm]]>
http://grimfinger.net/MegaAlliances.html

http://grimfinger.net/MoreMegaAlliances.html


From the Introduction section of the rulebook for Hyborian War, we find:

Hyborian War is a game of imperial conquest in the age of Conan. You will wield the power of command over the destiny of the kingdom you have chosen, charting a course of battle, intrigue and diplomacy over the centuries of the Age. Virtually every tool of statecraft is at your disposal. These rules will give you an idea of the many options available. How you use them--even how many of them you use--is up to you.

http://reality.com/hwintrod.htm


In the Settings section of the rulebook for Hyborian War, it states:

Each Hyborian War game represents in essence an "alternate history" of the Hyborian Age. In each game the history of the world will be different--the events which make up history will be decided by the actions of the players.

This same section also states:

The role of the player in the game is that of an "immortal power behind the scenes." The player is a personality which alternately inhabits various members of a ruling dynasty--those who wield the true power of Hyboria over the passage of centuries. Monarchs may live and die. Thou, however, art ageless and eternal, a spirit of war, determined to mix thy passions with those of the age until the cup of glory hath been drunk to the lees. In summary, Hyborian War allows you a wide range of specific commands and declarations. RSI's staff and computer systems act as your ministers and accountants, keeping track of facts and figures for you, allowing you to execute complex missions with simple commands. (You will wage war without being responsible for counting arrows.) Use the best of your common sense and intuition, learn from your experiences, and guard your back always!

http://reality.com/hwsettin.htm]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=75 Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:39:29 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=75
What, I wonder, was Robert E. Howard thinking, all of those many moons ago, when he began laying the groundwork for the Hyborian and Thurian ages?

I suspect that Robert E. Howard crafted his settings together by weaving tapestries of lore, myth, and history, with a focus upon the exotic. That's just a suspicion, mind you, one formed at this late hour while wolfing down the last pretzels from a once-full bag long since beset by ravening teeth.

I am well aware of such information as that contained here, on the possible origin of the kingdoms that populated Hyboria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyborian_Age


Likewise, I am also aware of REH's fictional background titled "The Hyborian Age," located here:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hyborian_Age


I've looked at both of those sources on more than one occasion down through time, and while I am no Dale Rippke by any stretch of the imagination, I was somehow brought back to this subject matter tonight, after sending myself an e-mail message to test the mailer feature of the forum software here, which in turn ended up with me managing to do a little Internet exploring on the supercontinent Pangaea. Again, it wasn't a planned or expected activity for this evening's late hours, but that's how it turned out.

So, here I am.

And there, I paused long enough to make a couple of plain ham sandwiches, to be chased down by a healthy multi-dose of Sam's Cola.

Anyway, once upon a time ago, there lived a fellow by the name of Edward Seuss. You, however, are likely thinking of Dr. Seuss, a fellow by the name of Theodor Seuss Geisel. Different fellows entirely, you see. Or do you?

Edward Seuss was a geologist. He was born in 1831 and died in 1914. He is responsible for hypothesizing a major former geographical feature known as the supercontinent Gondwana, which he proposed in 1861 the existence of many millions of years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Suess


Robert E. Howard was born in 1906 and died in 1936. Thus, it certainly seems plausible that Howard had heard of Seuss, and had perhaps even read some of Seuss' scientific hypothesis. It may very well be that Gondwana was the inspiration for the realm of Grondar, a land found in the Thurian Age (the time of King Kull, Conan's ancestor of some eight thousand years earlier).

While reading up on Pangaea, I happened to take notice of something called the Cimmerian Plate, an ancient tectonic plate that comprises parts of present-day Anatolia, Iran, Afghanistan, Tibet, Indochina and Malaya regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_Plate


While it is admittedly a stretch to derive Grondar from Gondwana, the primary ways in which I think that Robert E. Howard likely came up with place names/kingdom names for the Thurian Age and the Hyborian Age were to either lift a word verbatim (such as in the instance of Ophir), or to simply come across a name that caught his eye and which he became enamored with, and then to slightly change it for exotic sake or for flavor's sake. Thus, then, the "Gond" portion of Gondwana may very well have been transmogrified by Robert E. Howard into the foundational basis for the "Grond" portion of Grondar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophir


I may be wrong, of course, and the world is none the worse for it, in this particular instance, if I am.

The Catalysm that occurred between the Thurian Age and the Hyborian Age may trace its origins in Robert E. Howard's mind to him reading about plate tectonics and continental drift.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


According to Wikipedia, Plate tectonic theory arose out of the hypothesis of continental drift proposed by Alfred Wegener in 1912 and expanded in his 1915 book The Origin of Continents and Oceans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics


Wegener's book, "The Origin of Continents and Oceans," may have sparked the idea for the Cataclysm.

With regard to the Gond-Grond connection, I think that it is very plausible that Howard may have modified Gondwana to become Grondar. Why? Because, back on November 5th of 2006, when I was fiddling around with some material for Kingdoms of Arcania background storylines, I used a similar technique to explain to myself how the name Ghod Gro'darr came about. While it has no relation to Hyboria, here is that portion from 2006, to help illuminate the point.

The Ghod part of the Tyrant's name I like, but I am not sure about the Gro'Darr part. Since this character is part-giant, part-deity, supposedly, what is the proper methodology for naming giants in this setting? Ghod, of course, should properly be pronounced such that it rhymes with God. Hopefully, players won't rhyme it with "toad," instead. Even if they do, then it would become tantamount to the pronunciation of "goad," which still works well, I think. Previously, I changed Ghod from being a demi-god of monstrosity to "this demi-god monstrosity." The first emphasized the monstrosity of his hordes. The latter emphasizes his own individual monstrosity.

Thus, "god" became "Ghod." In a similar manner, "Gond" may have become "Grond" for Howard.

One thing that you may wish to do is to distinguish the people of Cimmeria from the name, itself, of Cimmeria. Where did the name of Cimmeria originate?

A famous passage from the fictional works known as "The Nemedian Chronicles" begins the tale, "The Phoenix on the Sword,' a work authored by Robert E. Howard.

That passage is as follows:

"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars--Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."--The Nemedian Chronicles.

http://www.gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600811h.html


The oceans drank Atlantis during the event known as the Cataclysm. This is made clear in Howard's work, "The Hyborian Age," wherein it states:

Then the Cataclysm rocked the world. Atlantis and Lemuria sank, and the Pictish Islands were heaved up to form the mountain peaks of a new continent. Sections of the Thurian Continent vanished under the waves, or sinking, formed great inland lakes and seas. Volcanoes broke forth and terrific earthquakes shook down the shining cities of the empires. Whole nations were blotted out.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


The Cimmerians were descended from Atlantis. This information comes fro the same Howard source material.

North of Aquilonia, the western-most Hyborian kingdom, are the Cimmerians, ferocious savages, untamed by the invaders, but advancing rapidly because of contact with them; they are the descendants of the Atlanteans, now progressing more steadily than their old enemies the Picts, who dwell in the wilderness west of Aquilonia.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


The collision of the continents raised mountains along the suture, called the Cimmerian orogeny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_Plate


The Cimmerian Orogeny, is an orogeny that created mountain ranges that now lie in Central Asia. The orogeny is believed to have begun 200 - 150 million years ago (much of the Jurassic Period), when the Cimmerian plate collided with the southern coast of Kazakhstania, North and South China, enclosing the ancient Paleo-Tethys Ocean between them. The plate consisted of what are now known as Turkey, Iran, Tibet and western Southeast Asia. Much of the plate's northern boundary formed mountain ranges that were as high as the present-day Himalayas. The orogeny continued well into the Cretaceous and Early Cenozoic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_orogeny


I think that Robert E. Howard was probably somewhat versed in plate tectonics and continental drift theories, and it is from these theories that Cimmeria (the place) may well trace its origin. I think that Howard's mind was focused upon the cataclysm as THE defining event of the pre-Hyborian setting.

His star character in Hyboria was Conan, a Cimmerian, who was thusly a descendant of Atlantis, to boot. The Cataclysm is directly linked to Conan's heritage, by virtue of it being the Cataclysm which is what caused the oceans to drink Atlantis, the home of Conan's ancestors of old.

When people theorize about the origin of different kingdoms and peoples in Robert E. Howard's setting of Hyboria, I think that many times they simply do not distinguish between the people and the lands that those people occupy and originate from, where the origin of their names are concerned. Cimmerians are called Cimmerians because they hail from Cimmeria. But from whence did the land, itself - rather than the people who dwell in it, derive its name?]]>
What, I wonder, was Robert E. Howard thinking, all of those many moons ago, when he began laying the groundwork for the Hyborian and Thurian ages?

I suspect that Robert E. Howard crafted his settings together by weaving tapestries of lore, myth, and history, with a focus upon the exotic. That's just a suspicion, mind you, one formed at this late hour while wolfing down the last pretzels from a once-full bag long since beset by ravening teeth.

I am well aware of such information as that contained here, on the possible origin of the kingdoms that populated Hyboria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyborian_Age


Likewise, I am also aware of REH's fictional background titled "The Hyborian Age," located here:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hyborian_Age


I've looked at both of those sources on more than one occasion down through time, and while I am no Dale Rippke by any stretch of the imagination, I was somehow brought back to this subject matter tonight, after sending myself an e-mail message to test the mailer feature of the forum software here, which in turn ended up with me managing to do a little Internet exploring on the supercontinent Pangaea. Again, it wasn't a planned or expected activity for this evening's late hours, but that's how it turned out.

So, here I am.

And there, I paused long enough to make a couple of plain ham sandwiches, to be chased down by a healthy multi-dose of Sam's Cola.

Anyway, once upon a time ago, there lived a fellow by the name of Edward Seuss. You, however, are likely thinking of Dr. Seuss, a fellow by the name of Theodor Seuss Geisel. Different fellows entirely, you see. Or do you?

Edward Seuss was a geologist. He was born in 1831 and died in 1914. He is responsible for hypothesizing a major former geographical feature known as the supercontinent Gondwana, which he proposed in 1861 the existence of many millions of years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Suess


Robert E. Howard was born in 1906 and died in 1936. Thus, it certainly seems plausible that Howard had heard of Seuss, and had perhaps even read some of Seuss' scientific hypothesis. It may very well be that Gondwana was the inspiration for the realm of Grondar, a land found in the Thurian Age (the time of King Kull, Conan's ancestor of some eight thousand years earlier).

While reading up on Pangaea, I happened to take notice of something called the Cimmerian Plate, an ancient tectonic plate that comprises parts of present-day Anatolia, Iran, Afghanistan, Tibet, Indochina and Malaya regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_Plate


While it is admittedly a stretch to derive Grondar from Gondwana, the primary ways in which I think that Robert E. Howard likely came up with place names/kingdom names for the Thurian Age and the Hyborian Age were to either lift a word verbatim (such as in the instance of Ophir), or to simply come across a name that caught his eye and which he became enamored with, and then to slightly change it for exotic sake or for flavor's sake. Thus, then, the "Gond" portion of Gondwana may very well have been transmogrified by Robert E. Howard into the foundational basis for the "Grond" portion of Grondar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophir


I may be wrong, of course, and the world is none the worse for it, in this particular instance, if I am.

The Catalysm that occurred between the Thurian Age and the Hyborian Age may trace its origins in Robert E. Howard's mind to him reading about plate tectonics and continental drift.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


According to Wikipedia, Plate tectonic theory arose out of the hypothesis of continental drift proposed by Alfred Wegener in 1912 and expanded in his 1915 book The Origin of Continents and Oceans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics


Wegener's book, "The Origin of Continents and Oceans," may have sparked the idea for the Cataclysm.

With regard to the Gond-Grond connection, I think that it is very plausible that Howard may have modified Gondwana to become Grondar. Why? Because, back on November 5th of 2006, when I was fiddling around with some material for Kingdoms of Arcania background storylines, I used a similar technique to explain to myself how the name Ghod Gro'darr came about. While it has no relation to Hyboria, here is that portion from 2006, to help illuminate the point.

The Ghod part of the Tyrant's name I like, but I am not sure about the Gro'Darr part. Since this character is part-giant, part-deity, supposedly, what is the proper methodology for naming giants in this setting? Ghod, of course, should properly be pronounced such that it rhymes with God. Hopefully, players won't rhyme it with "toad," instead. Even if they do, then it would become tantamount to the pronunciation of "goad," which still works well, I think. Previously, I changed Ghod from being a demi-god of monstrosity to "this demi-god monstrosity." The first emphasized the monstrosity of his hordes. The latter emphasizes his own individual monstrosity.

Thus, "god" became "Ghod." In a similar manner, "Gond" may have become "Grond" for Howard.

One thing that you may wish to do is to distinguish the people of Cimmeria from the name, itself, of Cimmeria. Where did the name of Cimmeria originate?

A famous passage from the fictional works known as "The Nemedian Chronicles" begins the tale, "The Phoenix on the Sword,' a work authored by Robert E. Howard.

That passage is as follows:

"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars--Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."--The Nemedian Chronicles.

http://www.gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600811h.html


The oceans drank Atlantis during the event known as the Cataclysm. This is made clear in Howard's work, "The Hyborian Age," wherein it states:

Then the Cataclysm rocked the world. Atlantis and Lemuria sank, and the Pictish Islands were heaved up to form the mountain peaks of a new continent. Sections of the Thurian Continent vanished under the waves, or sinking, formed great inland lakes and seas. Volcanoes broke forth and terrific earthquakes shook down the shining cities of the empires. Whole nations were blotted out.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


The Cimmerians were descended from Atlantis. This information comes fro the same Howard source material.

North of Aquilonia, the western-most Hyborian kingdom, are the Cimmerians, ferocious savages, untamed by the invaders, but advancing rapidly because of contact with them; they are the descendants of the Atlanteans, now progressing more steadily than their old enemies the Picts, who dwell in the wilderness west of Aquilonia.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hybori...borian_Age


The collision of the continents raised mountains along the suture, called the Cimmerian orogeny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_Plate


The Cimmerian Orogeny, is an orogeny that created mountain ranges that now lie in Central Asia. The orogeny is believed to have begun 200 - 150 million years ago (much of the Jurassic Period), when the Cimmerian plate collided with the southern coast of Kazakhstania, North and South China, enclosing the ancient Paleo-Tethys Ocean between them. The plate consisted of what are now known as Turkey, Iran, Tibet and western Southeast Asia. Much of the plate's northern boundary formed mountain ranges that were as high as the present-day Himalayas. The orogeny continued well into the Cretaceous and Early Cenozoic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian_orogeny


I think that Robert E. Howard was probably somewhat versed in plate tectonics and continental drift theories, and it is from these theories that Cimmeria (the place) may well trace its origin. I think that Howard's mind was focused upon the cataclysm as THE defining event of the pre-Hyborian setting.

His star character in Hyboria was Conan, a Cimmerian, who was thusly a descendant of Atlantis, to boot. The Cataclysm is directly linked to Conan's heritage, by virtue of it being the Cataclysm which is what caused the oceans to drink Atlantis, the home of Conan's ancestors of old.

When people theorize about the origin of different kingdoms and peoples in Robert E. Howard's setting of Hyboria, I think that many times they simply do not distinguish between the people and the lands that those people occupy and originate from, where the origin of their names are concerned. Cimmerians are called Cimmerians because they hail from Cimmeria. But from whence did the land, itself - rather than the people who dwell in it, derive its name?]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=74 Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:13:39 -0700 Sergio Pistachio El Sasquatcho http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=74
I am a born, raised, New Englander. I have never lived anywhere else but MA.

New England is not bad. I like the four seasons. Each NE state is unique in its own way.

From my home 107 year old home in MA (At good rates of speed):
NH 15 mins
ME 40 mins
RI 50 Mins
CT 60 Mins
VT 75 Mins
NY 120 mins

I am a married man. I have been married 8 years, been together with her 5 years prior to that.

I have a step daughter that is turning 16 next month
She is a good kid
She is a competitive cheerleader. Level 5
She travels all over the country cheering. This is why I am broke.
But it keeps her out of trouble.


My hobbies include:

Music: I love it all. All types

Guitar Playing

I've been playing for many many years. I don't really suck. I like to write music. I've been in a few bands over the years. Played out a bunch of times in front of people. Have been paid for it.
I only play original music now.
I am not a fan of the cover band.
I have a band together now that plays once a week in my basement for 2 hours on Monday nights. Everyone is married with kids.
We play rock songs, heavy metal songs, blues songs, reggae songs, jazz songs, progressive rock songs, some instrumentals, punk songs, groovey music, and a lil country. Its stupid music. But it's ours!!
The band does not yet have a name.

I have the following gutiars:
Fender Ultra Strat Delux
Parker Fly Delux
Part Nite Fly SA
Takmine Pete Townsend Electric Acoustic
A solid birdseye maple 70's strat copy
Gibson Epiphone Acoustic
A cheap honer 12 string

I play through a Johnson Millenium 2x12 combo Amp

Jeff Beck and Tommy Bolin are my favorite guitar players

I play darts.
I play on a D division dart team.
I do this every tuesday 6 mos out of the year
My wife is on my team
I practice and practice, but still suck
We have fun though

I like to Hike.
There is another forum here that gets into that.

I like to go on road trips.

I like to Kayak.

I like to goto the gym at lunchtime. I am pretty dedicated

I like to eat (too much)

I like to drink a bit

I like chicken

I like to sing Karoke

I like to read

Work:

I am a buyer for a very very very large defense contracter. I buy commercial product/services used in direct support of government contracts.

I have some good friends.

I am too lazy sometimes.


(I will update this later)]]>
I am a born, raised, New Englander. I have never lived anywhere else but MA.

New England is not bad. I like the four seasons. Each NE state is unique in its own way.

From my home 107 year old home in MA (At good rates of speed):
NH 15 mins
ME 40 mins
RI 50 Mins
CT 60 Mins
VT 75 Mins
NY 120 mins

I am a married man. I have been married 8 years, been together with her 5 years prior to that.

I have a step daughter that is turning 16 next month
She is a good kid
She is a competitive cheerleader. Level 5
She travels all over the country cheering. This is why I am broke.
But it keeps her out of trouble.


My hobbies include:

Music: I love it all. All types

Guitar Playing

I've been playing for many many years. I don't really suck. I like to write music. I've been in a few bands over the years. Played out a bunch of times in front of people. Have been paid for it.
I only play original music now.
I am not a fan of the cover band.
I have a band together now that plays once a week in my basement for 2 hours on Monday nights. Everyone is married with kids.
We play rock songs, heavy metal songs, blues songs, reggae songs, jazz songs, progressive rock songs, some instrumentals, punk songs, groovey music, and a lil country. Its stupid music. But it's ours!!
The band does not yet have a name.

I have the following gutiars:
Fender Ultra Strat Delux
Parker Fly Delux
Part Nite Fly SA
Takmine Pete Townsend Electric Acoustic
A solid birdseye maple 70's strat copy
Gibson Epiphone Acoustic
A cheap honer 12 string

I play through a Johnson Millenium 2x12 combo Amp

Jeff Beck and Tommy Bolin are my favorite guitar players

I play darts.
I play on a D division dart team.
I do this every tuesday 6 mos out of the year
My wife is on my team
I practice and practice, but still suck
We have fun though

I like to Hike.
There is another forum here that gets into that.

I like to go on road trips.

I like to Kayak.

I like to goto the gym at lunchtime. I am pretty dedicated

I like to eat (too much)

I like to drink a bit

I like chicken

I like to sing Karoke

I like to read

Work:

I am a buyer for a very very very large defense contracter. I buy commercial product/services used in direct support of government contracts.

I have some good friends.

I am too lazy sometimes.


(I will update this later)]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=73 Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:55:40 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=73
Occasionally, people still register at the old forums site, even in spite of me posting a very visible notice there. So, last night I sent out a mailing, to inform those who had registered on the old site of the location of the current forums here on this site.

I also did a batch of site user ratings last night.]]>
Occasionally, people still register at the old forums site, even in spite of me posting a very visible notice there. So, last night I sent out a mailing, to inform those who had registered on the old site of the location of the current forums here on this site.

I also did a batch of site user ratings last night.]]> http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=72 Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:24:19 -0700 likebluemantles http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=72 http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=71 Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:32:14 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=71 http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=70 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:40:50 -0700 GrimFinger http://grimfinger.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=70 Obama’s Challenge
November 5, 2008

By George Friedman

Barack Obama has been elected president of the United States by a large majority in the Electoral College. The Democrats have dramatically increased their control of Congress, increasing the number of seats they hold in the House of Representatives and moving close to the point where — with a few Republican defections — they can have veto-proof control of the Senate. Given the age of some Supreme Court justices, Obama might well have the opportunity to appoint at least one and possibly two new justices. He will begin as one of the most powerful presidents in a long while.

Truly extraordinary were the celebrations held around the world upon Obama’s victory. They affirm the global expectations Obama has raised — and reveal that the United States must be more important to Europeans than the latter like to admit. (We can’t imagine late-night vigils in the United States over a French election.)

Obama is an extraordinary rhetorician, and as Aristotle pointed out, rhetoric is one of the foundations of political power. Rhetoric has raised him to the presidency, along with the tremendous unpopularity of his predecessor and a financial crisis that took a tied campaign and gave Obama a lead he carefully nurtured to victory. So, as with all politicians, his victory was a matter of rhetoric and, according to Machiavelli, luck. Obama had both, but now the question is whether he has Machiavelli’s virtue in full by possessing the ability to exercise power. This last element is what governing is about, and it is what will determine if his presidency succeeds.

Embedded in his tremendous victory is a single weakness: Obama won the popular vote by a fairly narrow margin, about 52 percent of the vote. That means that almost as many people voted against him as voted for him.

Obama’s Agenda vs. Expanding His Base
U.S. President George W. Bush demonstrated that the inability to understand the uses and limits of power can crush a presidency very quickly. The enormous enthusiasm of Obama’s followers could conceal how he — like Bush — is governing a deeply, and nearly evenly, divided country. Obama’s first test will be simple: Can he maintain the devotion of his followers while increasing his political base? Or will he believe, as Bush and Cheney did, that he can govern without concern for the other half of the country because he controls the presidency and Congress, as Bush and Cheney did in 2001? Presidents are elected by electoral votes, but they govern through public support.

Obama and his supporters will say there is no danger of a repeat of Bush — who believed he could carry out his agenda and build his political base at the same time, but couldn’t. Building a political base requires modifying one’s agenda. But when you start modifying your agenda, when you become pragmatic, you start to lose your supporters. If Obama had won with 60 percent of the popular vote, this would not be as pressing a question. But he barely won by more than Bush in 2004. Now, we will find out if Obama is as skillful a president as he was a candidate.

Obama will soon face the problem of beginning to disappoint people all over the world, a problem built into his job. The first disappointments will be minor. There are thousands of people hoping for appointments, some to Cabinet positions, others to the White House, others to federal agencies. Many will get something, but few will get as much as they hoped for. Some will feel betrayed and become bitter. During the transition process, the disappointed office seeker — an institution in American politics — will start leaking on background to whatever reporters are available. This will strike a small, discordant note; creating no serious problems, but serving as a harbinger of things to come.

Later, Obama will be sworn in. He will give a memorable, perhaps historic speech at his inauguration. There will be great expectations about him in the country and around the world. He will enjoy the traditional presidential honeymoon, during which all but his bitterest enemies will give him the benefit of the doubt. The press initially will adore him, but will begin writing stories about all the positions he hasn’t filled, the mistakes he made in the vetting process and so on. And then, sometime in March or April, things will get interesting.

Iran and a U.S. Withdrawal From Iraq
Obama has promised to withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq, where he does not intend to leave any residual force. If he follows that course, he will open the door for the Iranians. Iran’s primary national security interest is containing or dominating Iraq, with which Iran fought a long war. If the United States remains in Iraq, the Iranians will be forced to accept a neutral government in Iraq. A U.S. withdrawal will pave the way for the Iranians to use Iraqi proxies to create, at a minimum, an Iraqi government more heavily influenced by Iran.

Apart from upsetting Sunni and Kurdish allies of the United States in Iraq, the Iranian ascendancy in Iraq will disturb some major American allies — particularly the Saudis, who fear Iranian power. The United States can’t afford a scenario under which Iranian power is projected into the Saudi oil fields. While that might be an unlikely scenario, it carries catastrophic consequences. The Jordanians and possibly the Turks, also American allies, will pressure Obama not simply to withdraw. And, of course, the Israelis will want the United States to remain in place to block Iranian expansion. Resisting a coalition of Saudis and Israelis will not be easy.

This will be the point where Obama’s pledge to talk to the Iranians will become crucial. If he simply withdraws from Iraq without a solid understanding with Iran, the entire American coalition in the region will come apart. Obama has pledged to build coalitions, something that will be difficult in the Middle East if he withdraws from Iraq without ironclad Iranian guarantees. He therefore will talk to the Iranians. But what can Obama offer the Iranians that would induce them to forego their primary national security interest? It is difficult to imagine a U.S.-Iranian deal that is both mutually beneficial and enforceable.

Obama will then be forced to make a decision. He can withdraw from Iraq and suffer the geopolitical consequences while coming under fire from the substantial political right in the United States that he needs at least in part to bring into his coalition. Or, he can retain some force in Iraq, thereby disappointing his supporters. If he is clumsy, he could wind up under attack from the right for negotiating with the Iranians and from his own supporters for not withdrawing all U.S. forces from Iraq. His skills in foreign policy and domestic politics will be tested on this core question, and he undoubtedly will disappoint many.

The Afghan Dilemma
Obama will need to address Afghanistan next. He has said that this is the real war, and that he will ask U.S. allies to join him in the effort. This means he will go to the Europeans and NATO, as he has said he will do. The Europeans are delighted with Obama’s victory because they feel Obama will consult them and stop making demands of them. But demands are precisely what he will bring the Europeans. In particular, he will want the Europeans to provide more forces for Afghanistan.

Many European countries will be inclined to provide some support, if for no other reason than to show that they are prepared to work with Obama. But European public opinion is not about to support a major deployment in Afghanistan, and the Europeans don’t have the force to deploy there anyway. In fact, as the global financial crisis begins to have a more dire impact in Europe than in the United States, many European countries are actively reducing their deployments in Afghanistan to save money. Expanding operations is the last thing on European minds.

Obama’s Afghan solution of building a coalition centered on the Europeans will thus meet a divided Europe with little inclination to send troops and with few troops to send in any event. That will force him into a confrontation with the Europeans in spring 2009, and then into a decision. The United States and its allies collectively lack the force to stabilize Afghanistan and defeat the Taliban. They certainly lack the force to make a significant move into Pakistan — something Obama has floated on several occasions that might be a good idea if force were in fact available.

He will have to make a hard decision on Afghanistan. Obama can continue the war as it is currently being fought, without hope of anything but a long holding action, but this risks defining his presidency around a hopeless war. He can choose to withdraw, in effect reinstating the Taliban, going back on his commitment and drawing heavy fire from the right. Or he can do what we have suggested is the inevitable outcome, namely, negotiate — and reach a political accord — with the Taliban. Unlike Bush, however, withdrawal or negotiation with the Taliban will increase the pressure on Obama from the right. And if this is coupled with a decision to delay withdrawal from Iraq, Obama’s own supporters will become restive. His 52 percent Election Day support could deteriorate with remarkable speed.

The Russian Question
At the same time, Obama will face the Russian question. The morning after Obama’s election, Russian President Dmitri Medvedev announced that Russia was deploying missiles in its European exclave of Kaliningrad in response to the U.S. deployment of ballistic missile defense systems in Poland. Obama opposed the Russians on their August intervention in Georgia, but he has never enunciated a clear Russia policy. We expect Ukraine will have shifted its political alignment toward Russia, and Moscow will be rapidly moving to create a sphere of influence before Obama can bring his attention — and U.S. power — to bear.

Obama will again turn to the Europeans to create a coalition to resist the Russians. But the Europeans will again be divided. The Germans can’t afford to alienate the Russians because of German energy dependence on Russia and because Germany does not want to fight another Cold War. The British and French may be more inclined to address the question, but certainly not to the point of resurrecting NATO as a major military force. The Russians will be prepared to talk, and will want to talk a great deal, all the while pursuing their own national interest of increasing their power in what they call their “near abroad.”

Obama will have many options on domestic policy given his majorities in Congress. But his Achilles’ heel, as it was for Bush and for many presidents, will be foreign policy. He has made what appear to be three guarantees. First, he will withdraw from Iraq. Second, he will focus on Afghanistan. Third, he will oppose Russian expansionism. To deliver on the first promise, he must deal with the Iranians. To deliver on the second, he must deal with the Taliban. To deliver on the third, he must deal with the Europeans.

Global Finance and the European Problem
The Europeans will pose another critical problem, as they want a second Bretton Woods agreement. Some European states appear to desire a set of international regulations for the financial system. There are three problems with this.

First, unless Obama wants to change course dramatically, the U.S. and European positions differ over the degree to which governments will regulate interbank transactions. The Europeans want much more intrusion than the Americans. They are far less averse to direct government controls than the Americans have been. Obama has the power to shift American policy, but doing that will make it harder to expand his base.

Second, the creation of an international regulatory body that has authority over American banks would create a system where U.S. financial management was subordinated to European financial management.

And third, the Europeans themselves have no common understanding of things. Obama could thus quickly be drawn into complex EU policy issues that could tie his hands in the United States. These could quickly turn into painful negotiations, in which Obama’s allure to the Europeans will evaporate.

One of the foundations of Obama’s foreign policy — and one of the reasons the Europeans have celebrated his election — was the perception that Obama is prepared to work closely with the Europeans. He is in fact prepared to do so, but his problem will be the same one Bush had: The Europeans are in no position to give the things that Obama will need from them — namely, troops, a revived NATO to confront the Russians and a global financial system that doesn’t subordinate American financial authority to an international bureaucracy.

The Hard Road Ahead
Like any politician, Obama will face the challenge of having made a set of promises that are not mutually supportive. Much of his challenge boils down to problems that he needs to solve and that he wants European help on, but the Europeans are not prepared to provide the type and amount of help he needs. This, plus the fact that a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq requires an agreement with Iran — something hard to imagine without a continued U.S. presence in Iraq — gives Obama a difficult road to move on.

As with all American presidents (who face midterm elections with astonishing speed), Obama’s foreign policy moves will be framed by his political support. Institutionally, he will be powerful. In terms of popular support, he begins knowing that almost half the country voted against him, and that he must increase his base. He must exploit the honeymoon period, when his support will expand, to bring another 5 percent or 10 percent of the public into his coalition. These people voted against him; now he needs to convince them to support him. But these are precisely the people who would regard talks with the Taliban or Iran with deep distrust. And if negotiations with the Iranians cause him to keep forces in Iraq, he will alienate his base without necessarily winning over his opponents.

And there is always the unknown. There could be a terrorist attack, the Russians could start pressuring the Baltic states, the Mexican situation could deteriorate. The unknown by definition cannot be anticipated. And many foreign leaders know it takes an administration months to settle in, something some will try to take advantage of. On top of that, there is now nearly a three-month window in which the old president is not yet out and the new president not yet in.

Obama must deal with extraordinarily difficult foreign policy issues in the context of an alliance failing not because of rough behavior among friends but because the allies’ interests have diverged. He must deal with this in the context of foreign policy positions difficult to sustain and reconcile, all against the backdrop of almost half an electorate that voted against him versus supporters who have enormous hopes vested in him. Obama knows all of this, of course, as he indicated in his victory speech.

We will now find out if Obama understands the exercise of political power as well as he understands the pursuit of that power. You really can’t know that until after the fact. There is no reason to think he can’t finesse these problems. Doing so will take cunning, trickery and the ability to make his supporters forget the promises he made while keeping their support. It will also require the ability to make some of his opponents embrace him despite the path he will have to take. In other words, he will have to be cunning and ruthless without appearing to be cunning and ruthless. That’s what successful presidents do.

In the meantime, he should enjoy the transition. It’s frequently the best part of a presidency.

Please feel free to distribute this Intelligence Report to friends or repost to your Web site linking to http://www.stratfor.com.]]> Obama’s Challenge
November 5, 2008

By George Friedman

Barack Obama has been elected president of the United States by a large majority in the Electoral College. The Democrats have dramatically increased their control of Congress, increasing the number of seats they hold in the House of Representatives and moving close to the point where — with a few Republican defections — they can have veto-proof control of the Senate. Given the age of some Supreme Court justices, Obama might well have the opportunity to appoint at least one and possibly two new justices. He will begin as one of the most powerful presidents in a long while.

Truly extraordinary were the celebrations held around the world upon Obama’s victory. They affirm the global expectations Obama has raised — and reveal that the United States must be more important to Europeans than the latter like to admit. (We can’t imagine late-night vigils in the United States over a French election.)

Obama is an extraordinary rhetorician, and as Aristotle pointed out, rhetoric is one of the foundations of political power. Rhetoric has raised him to the presidency, along with the tremendous unpopularity of his predecessor and a financial crisis that took a tied campaign and gave Obama a lead he carefully nurtured to victory. So, as with all politicians, his victory was a matter of rhetoric and, according to Machiavelli, luck. Obama had both, but now the question is whether he has Machiavelli’s virtue in full by possessing the ability to exercise power. This last element is what governing is about, and it is what will determine if his presidency succeeds.

Embedded in his tremendous victory is a single weakness: Obama won the popular vote by a fairly narrow margin, about 52 percent of the vote. That means that almost as many people voted against him as voted for him.

Obama’s Agenda vs. Expanding His Base
U.S. President George W. Bush demonstrated that the inability to understand the uses and limits of power can crush a presidency very quickly. The enormous enthusiasm of Obama’s followers could conceal how he — like Bush — is governing a deeply, and nearly evenly, divided country. Obama’s first test will be simple: Can he maintain the devotion of his followers while increasing his political base? Or will he believe, as Bush and Cheney did, that he can govern without concern for the other half of the country because he controls the presidency and Congress, as Bush and Cheney did in 2001? Presidents are elected by electoral votes, but they govern through public support.

Obama and his supporters will say there is no danger of a repeat of Bush — who believed he could carry out his agenda and build his political base at the same time, but couldn’t. Building a political base requires modifying one’s agenda. But when you start modifying your agenda, when you become pragmatic, you start to lose your supporters. If Obama had won with 60 percent of the popular vote, this would not be as pressing a question. But he barely won by more than Bush in 2004. Now, we will find out if Obama is as skillful a president as he was a candidate.

Obama will soon face the problem of beginning to disappoint people all over the world, a problem built into his job. The first disappointments will be minor. There are thousands of people hoping for appointments, some to Cabinet positions, others to the White House, others to federal agencies. Many will get something, but few will get as much as they hoped for. Some will feel betrayed and become bitter. During the transition process, the disappointed office seeker — an institution in American politics — will start leaking on background to whatever reporters are available. This will strike a small, discordant note; creating no serious problems, but serving as a harbinger of things to come.

Later, Obama will be sworn in. He will give a memorable, perhaps historic speech at his inauguration. There will be great expectations about him in the country and around the world. He will enjoy the traditional presidential honeymoon, during which all but his bitterest enemies will give him the benefit of the doubt. The press initially will adore him, but will begin writing stories about all the positions he hasn’t filled, the mistakes he made in the vetting process and so on. And then, sometime in March or April, things will get interesting.

Iran and a U.S. Withdrawal From Iraq
Obama has promised to withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq, where he does not intend to leave any residual force. If he follows that course, he will open the door for the Iranians. Iran’s primary national security interest is containing or dominating Iraq, with which Iran fought a long war. If the United States remains in Iraq, the Iranians will be forced to accept a neutral government in Iraq. A U.S. withdrawal will pave the way for the Iranians to use Iraqi proxies to create, at a minimum, an Iraqi government more heavily influenced by Iran.

Apart from upsetting Sunni and Kurdish allies of the United States in Iraq, the Iranian ascendancy in Iraq will disturb some major American allies — particularly the Saudis, who fear Iranian power. The United States can’t afford a scenario under which Iranian power is projected into the Saudi oil fields. While that might be an unlikely scenario, it carries catastrophic consequences. The Jordanians and possibly the Turks, also American allies, will pressure Obama not simply to withdraw. And, of course, the Israelis will want the United States to remain in place to block Iranian expansion. Resisting a coalition of Saudis and Israelis will not be easy.

This will be the point where Obama’s pledge to talk to the Iranians will become crucial. If he simply withdraws from Iraq without a solid understanding with Iran, the entire American coalition in the region will come apart. Obama has pledged to build coalitions, something that will be difficult in the Middle East if he withdraws from Iraq without ironclad Iranian guarantees. He therefore will talk to the Iranians. But what can Obama offer the Iranians that would induce them to forego their primary national security interest? It is difficult to imagine a U.S.-Iranian deal that is both mutually beneficial and enforceable.

Obama will then be forced to make a decision. He can withdraw from Iraq and suffer the geopolitical consequences while coming under fire from the substantial political right in the United States that he needs at least in part to bring into his coalition. Or, he can retain some force in Iraq, thereby disappointing his supporters. If he is clumsy, he could wind up under attack from the right for negotiating with the Iranians and from his own supporters for not withdrawing all U.S. forces from Iraq. His skills in foreign policy and domestic politics will be tested on this core question, and he undoubtedly will disappoint many.

The Afghan Dilemma
Obama will need to address Afghanistan next. He has said that this is the real war, and that he will ask U.S. allies to join him in the effort. This means he will go to the Europeans and NATO, as he has said he will do. The Europeans are delighted with Obama’s victory because they feel Obama will consult them and stop making demands of them. But demands are precisely what he will bring the Europeans. In particular, he will want the Europeans to provide more forces for Afghanistan.

Many European countries will be inclined to provide some support, if for no other reason than to show that they are prepared to work with Obama. But European public opinion is not about to support a major deployment in Afghanistan, and the Europeans don’t have the force to deploy there anyway. In fact, as the global financial crisis begins to have a more dire impact in Europe than in the United States, many European countries are actively reducing their deployments in Afghanistan to save money. Expanding operations is the last thing on European minds.

Obama’s Afghan solution of building a coalition centered on the Europeans will thus meet a divided Europe with little inclination to send troops and with few troops to send in any event. That will force him into a confrontation with the Europeans in spring 2009, and then into a decision. The United States and its allies collectively lack the force to stabilize Afghanistan and defeat the Taliban. They certainly lack the force to make a significant move into Pakistan — something Obama has floated on several occasions that might be a good idea if force were in fact available.

He will have to make a hard decision on Afghanistan. Obama can continue the war as it is currently being fought, without hope of anything but a long holding action, but this risks defining his presidency around a hopeless war. He can choose to withdraw, in effect reinstating the Taliban, going back on his commitment and drawing heavy fire from the right. Or he can do what we have suggested is the inevitable outcome, namely, negotiate — and reach a political accord — with the Taliban. Unlike Bush, however, withdrawal or negotiation with the Taliban will increase the pressure on Obama from the right. And if this is coupled with a decision to delay withdrawal from Iraq, Obama’s own supporters will become restive. His 52 percent Election Day support could deteriorate with remarkable speed.